Transcript for Episode 4: Queer and Trans Representation in Fanfiction and Media feat. Hashtag Ruthless Productions
In a divergence from my usual format, I hold a conversation with Jessie Blount and Lark Malakai, the producers of The Gayly Prophet, EsGAYpe from Reality, and We are the Gayers at Hashtag Ruthless Productions, about their experiences with fanfiction as well as the importantance of trans and queer representation in media and the importance role that fanfiction plays in providing that representation. We also discuss the ability of fanfiction to fill gaps and transform works that have come from problematic sources, particularly Harry Potter, and the importance in firing JK Rowling/ finding ways to ethically engage with Harry Potter while denying her profits under our capitalist society. This episode is slightly longer than usual, but the conversation is important.
ITA Episode 4 rearranged
Talia Franks: Hello and welcome to a special episode of, Into the Archives in something of a departure from my usual format of talking about a specific fic, I’m going to be having a more freeform fanfiction discussion with Jessie Blount and Lark Malakai Grey of Hashtag Ruthless productions about their work and about queer and trans representation and fanfiction, particularly in Harry Potter. Jessie is a queer Black woman, INTP, a Sagittarius sci-fi and fantasy nerd, a witch and an incredible cook. Jessie works for a rad nonprofit in Detroit, where she lives with her wife, Nicole and their beautiful Slytherin cat princess Winnie. She spends her time learning survival skills for the impending apocalypse and collecting Harry Potter memes. Lark is a white, chronically ill, trans boy. He’s a Pisces Scorpio rising and moon. An INFJ, a witch and everyone’s hot tattoo dad.
He lives in Portland, Oregon with his husband, Evan in three. Perfect pitbulls named Jezebel, Rufio, and Inigo Montoya. Can I just say y’all have wonderful names for your pets? (Jessie laughs)
Lark Malakai Grey: Thank you.
Talia Franks: I just wanna like, sorry. I’m I’m I’m inserting into the bio.
Lark Malakai Grey: It’s actually Rufio like in Hook
Talia Franks: Rufio? Oh I’m so sorry.
Lark Malakai Grey: It’s okay.
Talia Franks: I mispronounced, I asked how to pronounce your names.
I forgot pets names. I am. I am distraught with myself. (Lark laughs)
Lark Malakai Grey: This means we should watch hook again, which like any excuse to watch Hook again is a good thing.
Talia Franks: I have not watched that since I was child.
Jessie Blount: You totally should
Lark Malakai Grey: Well now you have homework for tonight. (Talia and Jessie laugh)
Talia Franks: Okay. All right. I’ll put it on my to-do list. In addition to being responsible for the behind the scenes magic at Hashtag Ruthless, Lark is also a Tarot Reader. Can I just say you’re Tarot episodes of the Gayly Prophet? Just send me? I just loved them so much.
Lark Malakai Grey: Thank you.
Jessie Blount: That is, that is very exciting to hear.
We put, I don’t say a lot of work, but we put work into those episodes.
Talia Franks: So do you want to. Just maybe talk about yourselves and your podcasts. Just a little bit about what you do with, I know you have three podcasts. You said three is the max.
Lark Malakai Grey: Mhmm. Yeah. Three podcasts, episodes a month.
So that’s, that’s too many. Yeah, we have, we have a Harry Potter podcast, obviously. We have one about the Simon Snow series by Rainbow Rowell. And then we just started a Patreon only podcast about Buffy the Vampire Slayer that came out today, cause we release a once a full moon. So, you know, cause witchy stuff.
Jessie, do you want to like do more deets on the podcast?
Jessie Blount: Yeah. So we are as our, as our tagline says a humorous yet ruthless, well we do humorous yet ruthless, analysis of, of the media that our podcast is about, coming from it from queer feminist perspectives. We just like to rip things apart that we love. And I don’t know why people are always like, don’t you like this thing? It’s like, I like it a lot. That’s why I’m ripping it apart (Lark is laughing) and telling you about all of the fucked up things that are happening politically within every Potter and Buffy and not so much Carry On,
Lark Malakai Grey: all the fucked up things and carry on, or like intentionally fucked up and there to further the plot by being fucked up, which is actually really nice. (Lark laughs) So, so nice to talk about
Jessie Blount: very refreshing
Lark Malakai Grey: a work where the things that we are talking about in our, in The Gayly Prophet the politics section in EsGAYpe From Reality, the podcasts are all Bohemian Rhapsody themed because the name of the first book is from Bohemian Rhapsody, and so face the truth is our politics equivalent. (Talia Hmmms in understanding) And in that podcast, the things, the political stuff that we’re talking about is like the politics of that world and how it reflects in our world. And, the things that the characters that are doing that are like super messed up to one another are intentionally messed up, which is just so different from Harry Potter and Buffy where it’s like, why are these people so like, why, why are these characters so terrible? Why is this world so terrible? And it’s not supposed to be.
Jessie Blount: Yeah,
Talia Franks: Yeah, that’s totally valid. And, I really appreciate that about your podcast, because I love to tear things apart,
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah
Talia Franks: like tearing things apart is one of my favorite parts of critical fandom and being critical of the things we love, because I definitely feel like being critical of the things we love and holding them accountable is like the best way to really engage with those things.
And part of why I do love your podcast so much is because you like tear these things apart, but you do so with such good humor. And, it’s just, it’s just so fun to listen to y’all.
Lark Malakai Grey: Thank you.
Talia Franks: And I also really love, EsGAYpe From Reality. I haven’t actually finished Carry On yet, so it’s really fun to I’m like listening along as I’m reading.
So I’m only up to, chapter 12 right now, I’m a little bit behind that in the podcast I’ve only listened to the first three episodes and I’m up here to chapter 12, reading the book. So it’s still early.
Lark Malakai Grey: You have one more episode before we start spoiling things, just so you know.
Talia Franks: I haven’t — (All are laughing) Oh okay, well I’ll keep I’ll I’ll finish the book first. I haven’t actually met Baz in the book yet. So I’m very, I’m very I’m 12 chapters in, and I haven’t actually met Baz yet, (Lark and Jessie are laughing) but I know a lot about Baz because Simon — Are they really enemies?
Jessie Blount: No.
Lark Malakai Grey: Of course they are.
Talia Franks: Are they?
Lark Malakai Grey: What, how dare you. They hate each other so much,
Jessie Blount: quote, unquote
Talia Franks: enemies. Like I just like, okay, I mean, but, so the reason I really love, so I just want to say one of the reasons I love critical, fandom and being critical. And like, of these things and pulling them apart and everything, it’s so great. And one of the other things I really love is how fanfiction puts these things back together. And that’s one of the reasons that I wanted to make this podcast Into the Archives to really talk about fanfiction.
And a lot of the times I’m engaging with it in a sort of like fun way. One of the things I do, and most of my episodes is I retell a fanfic and it’s funny or silly or weird. And we just talk about how, talk about how the fanfic sort of reshapes, like in one of my episodes, I talked about how, so in my most recent episode, I talked about how a Doctor Who fanfic could have been in Doctor Who episode. And so that fanfic was interesting because, well, that’s an example of how fanfic could easily integrate with the canon. But then I also talked about in the episode before that about a Good Omens, fanfic where Aziraphale was a polar bear and Crowley was a penguin. And
Jessie Blount: I did hear the episode. (Jessie laughs)
Talia Franks: Yeah, and so that is like, very clearly non-canonical complete nonsense, but also really fun and very much indicative of how, fanfic can be two very different things. And so. One of the big things though that fanfic can do is be a place of healing and resolution. And so I really wanted to explore that and, talk about that. Actually, it’s funny, I was thinking about one of the ways that you have been able to do both of those things. Is, I was actually listening to one of your episodes of the Queerbler earlier, the Harry Potter Too Fast Too Furious, (Jessie and Lark laugh)
which I feel does like a really great job of fixing book seven while also being absolutely ridiculous in the best way
Lark Malakai Grey: It’s a masterpiece if I do say so myself (Lark laughsq)
Talia Franks: it’s a masterpiece, it’s a complete masterpiece. And like literally rolls over Canon. And semi-truck. (Lark laughs)
Jessie Blount: I’m like, trying to remember that we must have talked about it in either one of the episodes in the first book, or like, maybe I was just like, we were like in a work meeting and that was just kind of like, you know, it’d be funny.
Lark Malakai Grey: I think it came up in our first.
Talia Franks: It came up,
Lark Malakai Grey: in either our first or second episode
Talia Franks: it came up in like either 2A or 2B or something like that
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah
Talia Franks: It came up really early on.
But I was just I was just listening through it and it was just, it’s so great. And I really, and I really like it and I just wanted to yeah. And I just, and I just wanted to bring it up just as an example of how fanfic can be so great in that way. Fanfic definitely can sometimes be really silly or have a really wild premise, but also again is a masterpiece and it’s really, really fun.
Lark Malakai Grey: Did you want to talk about the Queerbler?
Talia Franks: I just want to know, first of all, how did you come up with it as a concept? How did you come up with it as, how did you come up with such a fantastic name and how has it been going for you?
How, like what’s the most exciting part of it for you?
Lark Malakai Grey: We cannot take credit for the name. It is the other suggestion from our friend Theo, who does comics for the podcast. He’s a pun master. So when we decided to start at the podcast, I texted him and I was like, please help. Jessie and I are starting a Harry Potter podcast, we need a pun name. And he came back immediately with the Queerbler and the Gayly Prophet. And I was like, the Queerbler is too hard to say, but fantastic. And then when we decided to do Patreon fanfic, we were like, here, we have an opportunity to use the Queerbler. So,
Jessie Blount: I mean, I don’t think we necessarily like went into starting this podcast with like an idea of like necessarily like doing fanfiction, but just, and this, this is how my brain works, especially when I’m thinking about Harry Potter. Cause there’s just so many, like what ifs or, you know, would’ve made more sense. Or maybe if this was changed, like just in kind of the way that I think about Harry Potter and talk about it. That I think it, like, I dunno it was, I mean, it was definitely a, like really good fit to be like, what other Patreon on things, what do people want on Patreon?
And then it’s like, what if we just made up some fanfic?
Lark Malakai Grey: I think a really nice thing about me and Jessie’s relationship is that we’re both very open to what each other has to say. And also I think in part, because we both have ADHD, we just make decisions really quickly. So we’ll just be like, riffing, we’ll be talking on the podcast or texting, and then we come to an idea and then we both get excited about it.
And then we make a decision about doing the thing without really (Jessie laughs) planning. We don’t do a lot of planning between the two of us so I’m pretty sure, that the Queerbler came into existence, maybe in that episode, that Too Fast, Too Furious came into existence where it was like, LOL, that would be funny. And then it was like, we should write a fanfic and then it was like, we could put that on Patreon.
And I was like, we could do it as a like thing where we take turns, making up the story out loud and that done. That was it. One of us wrote it down and like our doc that we keep open while we’re recording. And then we followed up about it later and actually made it happen. And then it became a Patreon offering.
I think that’s actually how the Gayly Prophet came into being too, which was like (Talia laughs) LOL texting. Like we should do this thing. And it was like, yes. When tomorrow, like we should buy mics first. So maybe next Tuesday and then just go from there. And now it’s my full-time job.
Jessie Blount: Yeah, this definitely grew out of just me sending Lark a bunch of like, really funny, like Harry Potter memes, I’d see on the internet.
Cause I’m like, who is going to appreciate this as much as I do, especially when it’ll be like a really weird, in the weeds, obscure, Harry Potter reference. And I was just like, who else would I know is going to get this and think it’s funny.
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah.
Talia Franks: Yeah. I mean, this podcast grew out of me being at an online Doctor Who meet up at New Year’s telling everyone about this really wild. fanfic I read where Harry Potter was a werewolf and the master of death. And in love with Lord Voldemort,
Jessie Blount: Oh no. (Lark laughs) I will read a lot of Harry Potter ships. I cannot get behind any Harry Lord Voldemort slash Tom riddle stuff. I’m like, I’m like, I’m like you guys work. What, what are we?
Lark Malakai Grey: I dunno, I could deal with Harry/ Tom Riddle. That’s they definitely had some chemistry in that dungeon. And the age difference isn’t squicky.
Talia Franks: Well okay but also but also Tom Riddle was also low-key death. It’s it’s a thing.
Jessie Blount: Interesting.
Yeah, I usually just skim over, whenever I see that like relationship I’m just like
Talia Franks: don’t worry about it
Jessie Blount: keep, keep scrolling.
Talia Franks: It’s a, it’s a weird fic. (Jessie laughs) Uh it’s it’s, it’s a weird fic and I only half recommend it.
But yeah, so that’s how this, this podcast started was I was just retelling this really wild fic and a bunch of my friends were like, you know what?
You’re really good at retelling fanfic, (Jessie laughs) you should make a podcast
Lark Malakai Grey: it is a really cool idea for a podcast.
Talia Franks: Yeah. So, I mean, it’s just, it’s in my other podcast, the doctor who started because Lucia and I Lucia was a guest, was the guest for my second episode of this podcast. And we both really liked Dr. Hugh and we’d been messaging about how we both wanted to start a doctor who podcast.
And then Lucia was a guest on, into the archives. And then after we, after we, after we hit, after we stopped, after we hit the button to stop recording, we’re like, you know what? We have really good chemistry. We should just make it back to two podcasts. And then literally we started recording the next week.
And then at the end of one of our recording sessions, we were like, wait a minute. We should rerecord the outro for that episode you did on Into the Archives to talk about our new Doctor Who Podcast. So, I mean, I’m the same
Jessie Blount: for sure.
Talia Franks: I mean, I don’t have ADHD, but I do make very impulsive decisions.
Lark Malakai Grey: I think it can be a super power.
Jessie Blount: Yeah. And I mean, honestly there needs to be more podcasts, not by like cis white dudes. So,
Talia Franks: I mean, yeah. (Jessie laughs)
Jessie Blount: so, and more about fanfiction! Which I’m like, it’s such a big part of fandom and I’m like stop acting like fanfiction is the like, I dunno person, you have trapped in the attic because there’s such an embarrassment.
Talia Franks: I just wanted to ask if y’all could tell me where your journeys with fanfic began and how you started to interact with it and what it’s what it’s come to mean for you?
Jessie Blount: I can start I started reading fanfiction when I was 13. This was like, maybe 1997? (Jessie laughs) Which I feel makes me an official fandom old. And I got into fanfiction because at the time, I was like super hyper-focused on the X-Files, which is in my memory, an excellent show. I feel like if I watched it now, it would probably have the same loving, loving, critical analysis about all of the fucked up things that are unintentionally like fucked up and terrible.
But I was reading like a Yahoo search engine magazine and they had a little like pull-out card about like websites you could go to, to about like, like, like X-Files fan sites. And one that was like, and here is a like fanfiction archive. And I’m like, “What the fuck is that?” So of course I go to the library and I look it up because this is 1997, there is no child filters on the computers there. (Lark laughs) And I’m like, it’s basically like, it’s a whole new world is opened up to me about people, also screaming about the X-Files, which was super excellent. So like, and really, really ever since then like fanfiction has been a place for me to sort of like engage with other fans and to especially kind of explore the what ifs or like.
Tell me more about this thing that’s happening in the background. And you know, when I was in high school, I was really big into the Harry Potter fandom because, because the books are so terribly written, there’s a whole lot of things that aren’t explained that aren’t fleshed out a lot of two-dimensional characters. (Talia hmmms in agreement)
And so it’s, it was such an excellent playground to be like, we can just make up whatever the fuck we want to say about any of this and, or like, you know, try to figure out what the fuck is going on with, you know, post book four. And it’s also kind of like, just in a way been like, sort of like, I don’t know I have like depression and anxiety and I feel like reading fanfiction is a thing I do, where I’m just like, you know, what I need to do is read this 200 K. Slow burn and I’m just like, I don’t even think about my problems, (Talia Hmms in understanding) but, and so and like because of that, usually if I like watch a show or a movie, or like read a book, I really like, the first thing I do is go look for the fanfiction of, or like, see what kind of fanfiction is out there. Which means I’ve been in, I don’t know. I think if you could think of like 10 top fandoms of like the two thousands and the 2010s, I’ve probably at least be a little bit involved in, or at least have read fic in like ha in like two thirds of those.
I don’t watch anime. So any of the anime stuff I like can’t relate to, but, it’s like I’ve read and written Doctor Who fanfiction I’ve read and written Sherlock fanfiction. I mean, Supernatural is its own sort of can of worms, but like I know enough to be able to like follow along with what’s going on.
And sometimes I even just like, I’ll watch a thing to be like, everyone on the internet is talking about this thing. And I just want to know what these head canons and what this like fanfiction is about. Which, I mean, I normally, I normally don’t like not consuming the media first and then reading the fanfiction, but sometimes like, I’ll find the author who is like, they’re so good.
I’m kinda like let’s read the Wikipedia post about it so we can figure it out. So, and yeah, so it was just kind of like, I think like fandom and fanfiction in general, it was just been like, a way to sometimes either cope with or ignore my mental health issues. For better for worse, but I’m kind of like, I guess it’s better than, I dunno. I mean, used to just like binge drink or like smoking a bunch of weed to like deal with my depression. It’s like, I could just read a Harry/ Draco fic, this is fine.
Like, this is still objectively a better way to deal (Lark laughs) with like, when I’m like, you know what world I’d like, don’t, I’m good. I’m good. I don’t need to, I’ll read this fanfiction instead. So
Talia Franks: I’ve definitely been using fanfiction to cope with my anxiety and depression for my entire life. Basically, I’ve been reading fanfiction since I was nine years old. So my entire. My entire remembered life, basically, (Jessie laughs) because I feel like a lot of people, like, I don’t remember most of my life before I was nine years old. Like that’s, that’s too, that’s too young to like, I have like barely hints of memory, but I’ve really been reading fanfic for as long as I can remember. (Lark laughs)
Jessie Blount: So yeah. And I mean, I’m still going strong. I’m probably never going to stop reading. And at this point writing fanfiction, which I didn’t get into until like way like into my twenties or I’m just like, I graduated college and I’m like, I have all this free time, but like not necessarily hanging out with people as intensely.
So I’m like, I guess I’m writing some fanfiction.
Talia Franks: Yeah, no, but I feel in that case, you actually have written fanfic with skill. Whereas there’s like, fanfic that exists in the world that I’ve wrote when I was like 12 (Lark laughs) and it’s still out there and I don’t have the password anymore. So y’all are never gonna know what that handle is.
Jessie Blount: Yeah I definitely. I think have some terrible fanfic I wrote when I was in like high school that I should take down off of the internet. But, I mean, that’s kind of I feel part of the fanfiction journey is to have some terrible fanfiction that you like really earnestly wrote as a young person.
And then like getting a little bit older. You’re like, (Jessie sighs) yup. That was, that was a sure thing, but.
Lark Malakai Grey: I don’t, I don’t. And haven’t ever read fanfic you don’t have like a fun answer for this. Um, I read Jessie’s fanfic that we put on Patreon. I really enjoy it. I read a lot of like Tumblr posts and stuff that both Jessie and like our listeners send to me and things that, you know, fan accounts that we follow on Instagram posts.
I see a lot of fan art also through Instagram. But I didn’t know about fanfic. I think when I maybe would have gotten more into it and lately I actually have been trying to get into it, but I find. The amount of options on Ao3, incredibly overwhelming. And then I don’t have the skills to know how to narrow or, you know, know what I’m looking for.
And a really baseline fact of my personality is that I am deeply resentful of any media that I start. And then don’t like, and so it’s hard to convince me to watch a movie that I’ve never seen before, or, you know, a book that 20 people have recommended to me that I haven’t read. So I’m like, well, if I hate it, I’m going to be really mad.
So the idea knowing that so much fanfic is, you know, not necessarily well-written or something that I’m going to want to, I read of spending the amount of time, starting things, and then deciding whether or not I want to finish them. I’m like, Why would I do that when I could, like, if I am interested in doctor who fanfic, I could just rewatch all of Doctor Who again, because I will never get, like, I, I don’t ever get bored of the media that I enjoy. So I’m like, yeah, I can watch since the pandemic, I literally watched all of NuWho through three times in a row. So I was like, this is my emotional support show. This is all I’m doing is drawing on my iPad and watching Doctor Who in an endless loop. So I that’s, I just default to that when I’m like, I want to thing I’m like, well, I don’t just do the original thing again.
Talia Franks: Well, segue, have you read any of the Doctor Who comics or listened to big finish at all?
Lark Malakai Grey: No, but that is actually on my, on my list.
Talia Franks: Okay. Because like, if you have not read the Doctor Who comments, you are not living.
Jessie Blount: Really?
Lark Malakai Grey: Cool. Cause I love reading comics, so. And since they’re never going to put out a new saga,
Talia Franks: sorry, I got on my Doctor Who train (Jessie laughs) this is not the Doctor Who podcast. This is a fanfiction podcast.
Jessie Blount: You know it’s a very easy to get on, honestly.
Lark Malakai Grey: It sure is. (Jessie laughs)
Talia Franks: I will say actually, this does lead me to my thing. I will say one more thing is that the Doctor Who Extended Universe feels like fanfiction to me sometimes because, and it is officially sanctioned by the BBC, but it is also extra generated content.
And for me, a lot of that is a lot of what fanfiction is to me. It’s a way to explore the universe beyond the official Canon, and unfortunately not every franchise is a massive, almost 60 year old television show that has comics and audio dramas and books, because I didn’t even get to how awesome the Doctor Who books are.
But I’m trying to get off the Doctor Who train, I literally have like 50 doctor who books. I’m not even kidding.
Jessie Blount: Actually do I think I have complicated feelings about the idea of like, a Harry Potter based Extended Universe because
Talia Franks: No, I’m not saying I want a Harry Potter extended universe! Let me finish. (Jessie laughs)
Let me finish. I’m saying not everything has that and not everything should have that.
Jessie Blount: That’s fair.
Talia Franks: I’m saying that, and part of the reason I think it works with Doctor Who is because one doctor who is a TV show and doctor who’s a TV show that is created by multiple people and has been created and has multiple areas and has shifted hands so many times and has so many people working on it, that it is not one thing created by one person.
I think a large part of Harry— problem with Harry Potter is that it’s created by one person and one person has so much control and that one person is very problematic. But I feel like Doctor Who does have a lot of problematic elements and a lot of those Doctor Who books have issues with them that I don’t really like, so some of them I really love and some of them I really don’t and the ones that I really don’t, I put in the donation bin, cause they’re not. And I just don’t keep them as my books anymore. But the ones that I really love, I’m like, okay, I take that into my personal Canon. And that’s the same thing that I do with fanfiction too, is like, I find something and I’m like, oh, I really like that.
I’ll take it into my personal head canon. And so the thing of it is for me is I feel like productions that are like TV shows or movies that have a lot of minds working on them are the best things are like when you have a lot of people in a room, gestating ideas and working on a story and creating and moving together to create the thing that’s when the thing becomes the most expansive and most beautiful is when you can see all the ways that all the different people interpret it and see it. And that’s when it becomes the most expansive in its fullest form is when you can see all the ways, the different people see it. (Lark Hmmms)
And that’s what I really appreciate about fanfiction is that you can see the million different versions of Harry Potter. You can see the million different versions of Percy Jackson. Like you can see the million different versions of like Aziraphale and Crowley and all those people. And I feel like that’s something that is often lacking when there’s just one work with one creator. So that’s why I really love fanfiction of books in particular. But also doctor who is just my permanent obsession. So I consume all things. Doctor Who. The fanfic the books, the comics, the audio dramas, everything. And the TV show of course. Yeah. I watch that too sometimes, on occasion.
When the wind stands fair.
I mean, I did hide the fact that I read fanfic from my mom for a really long time, but that’s because when I was like 12 years old, she caught me reading a fic called the Deflowering of Ginny Weasley on her work computer. (Jessie and Lark burst into laughter)
We were at her job, and I was using the work computer and I was reading the fanfic and like, to be fair to me, it was rated G and I didn’t know what deflowering meant. And I was, I don’t think I was even 12. I think I was 10. I was really, I was, this was like in the early days when I actually paid attention to ratings and only let myself read the fanfic that was rated G cause I was like, I am a kid.
I should only be reading kid rated—
Jessie Blount: Wow that’s adorable.
Lark Malakai Grey: What a precious little baby.
Jessie Blount: Oh.
Lark Malakai Grey: Amazing
Talia Franks: Yeah, so, but that fic was not supposed to be rated G. anyway, my mom found me from reading it. And yeah, but it was a, it was a Draco/ Ginny fic because I was really obsessed with Draco and Ginny for a really long time, because the first ever fic that I read was Draco and Ginny. And I don’t know why I shipped it so hard, but I did.
And I remember it was before I found fanfic.net and before I knew Ao3 existed, the first fan site that I ever used was a Draco and Ginny fan site called Fire and Ice. And that was the fan site that I read. I’ve read almost exclusively Draco and Ginny fanfic for like multiple years.
Jessie Blount: That’s
Lark Malakai Grey: interesting
Jessie Blount: very hilarious.
But, I mean, honestly, I think there is something though about a ship that you don’t see very often. Like I love, I love a rare pair personally. But also sometimes if I’m like in a fandom and I’m like, cool, it’s just the two main dudes fucking I’m like, okay. But like, but these other side characters then you, that that could be fucking like, let me, I want to know.
And I feel like what I also really like about either a non canon or even like a, you know, even not as popular a ship in fanfiction is that you have to work with the characters and situations in order to like, make it feel like in order to like justify the whole thing.
And so I feel like it often makes it like interesting because you can’t just be like, there’s only one bed, which, I mean, I love that there’s only one bed. (Talia laughs) But you have to kind of like, you have to think more about it. And I feel like it makes the fanfiction so much more interesting.
Talia Franks: Yeah. And I also want to say this leads into the other thing I wanted to talk about, which is how fanfic can lead to realizations about things, which is for me. I was going to say Drake, so the first FIC, so there’s two things. The first FIC that made me the first, so fanfiction was actually, unfortunately my main avenue towards sex education was through fanfic, which is not good
Jessie Blount: yeah, I’m shaking. I’m shaking my head. I have a lot of feelings about this.
Talia Franks: It’s not good. Like I did, I did have sex education in school. Like Massachusetts is not horrible about that, but it’s also not, it’s not perfect. So I learned a lot more detail from fanfic and then from researching stuff I read and after reading fanfic than I did from like actual classrooms.
But basically, but specifically I learned a lot about just the fact that queer people existed from fanfic. And specifically, I remember it was a Draco Ginny fanfic where Ginny said to Draco, well, you know, girls like watching boys kissing each other, just as much as boys like watching girls kissing each other.
And that was the first time I realized that girls could kiss each other and boys could kiss each other. That was the first time I connected those dots. (All laughing)
Jessie Blount: I
Lark Malakai Grey: Amazing.
Jessie Blount: I feel like I actually have links to a couple of like articles where it’s like, fanfic was my sex education or a fanfic helped me realize like help usher in my like queer awakening.
Talia Franks: oh yeah.
Jessie Blount: I think it’s beautiful, but also very funny considering,
Lark Malakai Grey: Can we, I want this to serve as a PSA to everyone listening who writes fanfiction, to write lube into your fanfic. Children are learning from your fics.
Jessie Blount: Yeah the
Lark Malakai Grey: Please write lube.
Jessie Blount: The things that I’ve read in fanfiction that like should not be used as lube or like wouldn’t be used as lube is like, you guys. Don’t use shampoo. You can’t use blood. Don’t use spit. Like, I don’t know.
Talia Franks: At least like, at least like cast a lubrications bell like,
Lark Malakai Grey: Right? Yes.
Jessie Blount: Have someone carry some lube, grab some olive oil. I like something, something. Some Crisco
Lark Malakai Grey: something, anything? I mean, not anything, anything that actually works as lube.
Talia Franks: Yeah. Like, like seriously, like if you’re not going to go through the trouble of using something that is actually lube, like at least cast a spell, don’t use something that’s not lube!
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah. At least make it clear to your readers that lube is necessary. Right? Even if you don’t explain like what lube they’re using and be like, but clearly they know that lube needs to be happening right now.
Jessie Blount: Yeah. You should. You should be using lube for anal sex. And I feel like there’s a lot of fanfiction that’s like trying to pretend that’s not real.
And it’s just like, uh, unless this is ABO fic please use lube for your anal sex. So,
Talia Franks: Yeah. And. Yeah. And I will say also the other thing is the first time I realized that trans people existed was in a fanfic. Like, I literally didn’t even. Wasn’t even on my radar at all because it just didn’t. I just didn’t know.
I like, I didn’t know any trans people or if I knew any trans people, they weren’t out. And so the first time I encountered anyone being trans, it was in a fanfic. And so, and then like, it was like 12 years later, it was like, surprise you trans and non-binary and you were the whole time. (Jessie laughs) That was you!
Jessie Blount: It happens. It’s totally a thing. That’s why I always really appreciate it whenever I’m like in a fandom and it’s like, someone’s like, “I’m gonna write this character as trans” and I’m like, “yes, give it to me.” So,
Talia Franks: yeah, no, but it was like, I remember reading that fic and I was like, and I remember my mind being blown over the fact that like one didn’t have to be the gender that they were assigned at birth.
And I remember being like, this is fantastic. And I was so excited and I didn’t know why I was so excited, but I just was like little 12 year old Talia was like the most excited. And it just makes me really sad that it took until I was 12 and it took like. Fanfiction. Cause fanfiction is great, but also I don’t think it should be people’s introduction to the fact that trans people exist.
Jessie Blount: Yes. I mean,
Talia Franks: Also I will say that, like this was 2008 when like, so I feel like, that I’m talking about
Lark Malakai Grey: right. You’re a lot younger than us. Yeah. That does definitely make it sadder.
Jessie Blount: It, it, so it makes it sadder point blank. Sorry. It does make it sadder.
Talia Franks: Yeah, I realized I needed to, I realized they needed to preface how old I was to make
Jessie Blount: No, no, no, that and that
Lark Malakai Grey: Right, cause Jessie and I were 12 and 19, no, in 2000, 1989, somewhere in there.
Jessie Blount: What?
Nothing, go ahead
Up until recently, there weren’t trans folks on mainstream television, unless it was some kind of fucked up transphobic joke or like law and order SVU or some other kind of like fucking true crime, gross bullshit. And since part of like the joy of fanfiction is people being like, man, you know what I want to see in this fanfiction, this character as my identity.
So, and people have to shit on that idea of like, not quite self or like, like self insert fic, but also just like, why do you gotta like race bend this character? Why are you going to make this character trans? Cause it’s like all of these shows are just white dudes, like so many, like so much of the popular fandom is about like a white dude or two white dudes. And it’s like, that’s that’s just fucking boring. It’s played out. We’ve all. We’ve seen the chosen one, the like fucking genius in the room. White dude. Like, so yes. I want to go online and see someone who’s like this person’s trans and I’m like, cool, great.
Tell me about it. Because like we’re not, we’re not seeing it in mainstream media and unlike what people think, like what fuck it means like the fucking terrible rich people who run mainstream media, like a lot of, like, we want to see queer people in media. We want to see trans people. We want to see all kinds of people of color, but it’s not being made because capitalism and racism and whatever the fuck’s going on in Hollywood, that’s just like a nepotism circle jerk of like white dudes doing projects about other white dudes.
Talia Franks: Yeah. And I feel like (Talia sighs)
Lark Malakai Grey: Yep
Talia Franks: things have gotten like a little better now, but not enough.
Jessie Blount: I mean, better than what it was like when I was in like high school and like 2000, definitely. And I mean, you know, if you want to watch queer people on television, you were watching some weird, like terrible indie movie. (Talia laughs) Which I guess still hasn’t really changed the most for movies are terrible Indie movies. (Jessie laughs)
Talia Franks: Yeah. So when I, usually, when I want queer content, when I want something like interesting and fun and like not. I mean, sometimes it’s sad and dramatic, but like I usually go to fanfic because I feel like it’s a lot of times, a lot of the narratives that are portrayed in mainstream media, like there are some like good ones, but a lot of them are just like, they’re coming out.
A lot of them are coming out narratives. Or they’re like you said, they’re like transphobic representations of trans people, like not actually made by trans people. And it’s like, I feel like a lot of times fanfic can be more representative. But.
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah, I mean, I, my, obviously my experience in terms of fandom is very peripheral and a lot of it is more the like distilled Tumblr posts than actually reading fics. But even just from that, the, I read, I read recently that of the trans representation in mainstream media, 19% is trans masculine characters.
Which is why I’ve read or seen like two things that I can read myself into and two okay, sorry, three and two of them are Chuck Tingle books. So like there’s so much, there’s just so much more of that in fandom than there is even in like, Just proportionately in mainstream media, like the number of Harry Potter characters that people are like, I’m reading this as a trans man is like, cool, that’s 150% more trans masculine characters than I’ve ever seen in the media that I consume.
Which is like an absolute gift. It shouldn’t be that way. Right. But in terms of like the benefit of fanfic and like fan retconning existing, I think it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s hugely beneficial. And I also am like how much sooner, would I have figured myself out and come out. If I maybe had been in fandom, if I had been exposed more to people with identities like mine and like seeing what.
Like people experiencing the feelings that I was experiencing and then like what that could logically mean about who I was that could have, you know, possibly changed my timeline dramatically.
Talia Franks: Yeah, I, Fanfic and fandom were definitely things that helped me come out. But it also happened at a moment where at that point I’d known a lot of people who were in fandom and who were already out. And and so to only be doing it at that point felt very late to me. But I’ve since realized that I was still relatively young.
I realized that, over the course of my life, I’ve been surrounded by queer people and I just didn’t know it. And being surrounded by all these queer people. Before I knew them as people who were queer. I knew them as people who were super nerdy and into the same fanfiction stuff
Jessie Blount: I do want to just start a PSA, that there is no such thing about coming out too late. It’s always time to come out. Your people, people you grow, you change you, maybe you didn’t know that about yourself.
Talia Franks: That was the point I was trying to circle to but was having trouble getting to, because my brain was spiraling again.
Yeah, I will say I do not have ADHD, but I am neurodivergent I’m I’m autistic and I have and one of my, one of my things is definitely the not always paying attention to where my brain is going.
Jessie Blount: I feel like
Lark Malakai Grey: you’re in good company.
Jessie Blount: I feel like that’s where, one of the things in the Venn diagram where like autism and like ADHD, like having the middle, which is, I’ve already forgotten what I said at the beginning of what I was saying. And now I don’t know what I’m talking about.
So, so, you know, solidarity,
Talia Franks: I will say. Yeah, yeah, I do have, you know, and that’s the other thing. I also have a lot of neurodivergent friends. I have a lot of queer friends. I have a lot of fandom friends and I have a lot of neurodivergent friends. And sometimes people who fit that description are in a circle.
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah. The Venn diagram of those three identities, I think the center is fairly large.
Jessie Blount: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we have a lot of, a lot of listeners in that a giant circle, mostly because of like, I mean, hyper-focus is definitely part and like special interest is why, like me and Lark can spend two hours talking about one chapter of Harry Potter or like one 45 minute episode of Buffy
Lark Malakai Grey: two hours is like hard to keep an episode of Buffy inside of we’re like, oh my God so much happened. There were like five days in this episode. How are we going to talk about it in a reasonable time? You have to spend 20 minutes just ripping everyone’s out.
Talia Franks: I feel that so much.
Why do y’all think that queer and particularly trans fanfic is important particularly for fandoms like Harry Potter which as I said, have really problematic authors?
Lark Malakai Grey: I mean, like I said earlier, I think that fandom is a place where representation can happen. Without gatekeeping the same way that there is with mainstream media. I mean, obviously there’s a lot of like fucked up elements to all fandoms, but you can just write whatever fanfic you want or draw whatever fan art you want and people can get mad about it, but you still did it.
And you still put it out on the internet. You don’t have to like fight anybody to get it out into the world the way you do with mainstream media. So I think that it’s a place where representation of different kinds of queer identities and trans identities can be made more readily available for people.
And so, you know, not just young, queer and trans people, but queer and trans people of all ages can see themselves represented. Cause like I am 34 am I 34? I’m either 33 or 34, one of those. And like I. Literally, anytime I’m reading something where there is a trans character that I can in any way, identify with, even if it’s like a, child’s like the fucking trans kid in the Magnus Chase series, I’m like weeping.
I’m like, yes, thank God for this being here. So I think that the more there is, and the more accessible it is, that’s really important. And then I think with the Harry Potter fan of there’s, the added thing of like, it is an act of just radical, fuck you defiance to the transphobic author to just make it, seethingly gay, like.
And characters that you never would have head canoned as trans before fucking head canon them trans now and write it and draw it and put it out into the world just because
Talia Franks: Yup.
Lark Malakai Grey: fuck JKR
Talia Franks: Absolutely.
Yeah. And I know you made the hashtag, #MakeHarryPotterEvenGayer2020?
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah. We actually started that in December of 2019. The first time her transphobia stuff came out when not so many people were paying attention.
And people were like, why 2020? And I was like, because it’ll be 2020 in three weeks, what do you want me to do? (Lark and Jessie laugh) Like we’re not going to make it 2019. But no, it was, it was actually, so it was when the Maya Forstater stuff happened when people were starting to pay attention. There was like one NPR thing about it. I guess, I mean, we got interviewed by a couple of different outlets when that first one happened, but then everyone just forgot about it until June of 2020.
But that was when I really, that was when it really blew up.
Talia Franks: I know that y’all created the guide to firing JKR which I’m going to be linking again in the show notes. But I know I know it’s exhausting to keep talking about her.
So I don’t want to do it for much longer because I’m getting tired. But I just wanted to ask just real quickly, if, I feel like it’s obvious why it’s important. It’s obvious to me why it’s important, why we should do something like firing JKR. But I guess if you wanted to put it in your own words,
Lark Malakai Grey: Sure. Jessie, I’ve talked way more than you, do you wanna?,
Jessie Blount: I think that is incorrect. But
I mean, basically the guide is for people who like myself, where it’s all right, cool. The author is trash. I don’t know her. Like, sorry to this man. But still have a relationship to the Harry Potter fandom. Like obviously me and Lark run a Harry Potter podcast. I still read Harry Potter fanfiction.
I still write Harry Potter fanfiction and like, you know, think a lot about the books and you know, what, other people in the fandom are thinking about and like, you know, wanting to talk about. And I think that just because the fandom is so rich and interesting and diverse, it, it was really a kind of about the, you don’t necessarily have to throw all of that away along with JKR.
You could just go her and her fucking royalties away. Like don’t, don’t give her money.
Talia Franks: Mhmm
Jessie Blount: That’s how boycotts work. But yeah, obviously we can’t separate like Harry Potter, the story from the author. And we’re not, we’re not like asking people to do that. Just because a lot of her is in the books, which is accounts for a lot of the terrible things that are there. But you know, if people still want to find like value in the story that in the fandom they can, but it’s also 110% understandable for trans people and queer people and people to be like, you know what?
I’m good. I’m just not throw it all away. I’m not gonna talk about it dead to me. That’s understandable. Like that’s easy to do. Don’t talk about it, don’t rec the books to anyone. Fine. Good. But it just didn’t seem like there was necessarily anyone talking about the kind of middle ground of like what you can do if you still wanna be in the fandom.
And that’s where, you know, why that’s part of the guide along with the long list of receipts, about how terrible JKR is because right. People are like, what’s going on? I don’t know about this and it’s like, you should,
Lark Malakai Grey: Mhmm
Jessie Blount: but if not
Talia Franks: Mhmm
Jessie Blount: here, here are our receipts.
Talia Franks: I spent I spent the entire time I was getting not, not the entire time, but at least half the time I was getting my most recent tattoo explaining to my tattoo artist, why J K Rowling was horrible. And by the end of the day, by the end of it, he was saying, fuck JK Rowling. And then I, I ended up going back to him to get another tattoo, like two days later. Cause just weird timing. I had like scheduled tattoo, but then had to reschedule it because reasons.
And then, so that meant that I ended up having two tattoos almost back to back. And he and so then the next day someone else said something about J K Rowling and then he said, no fuck JK Rowling to them.
Lark Malakai Grey: Good to spread the word
Talia Franks: So he was, he was spreading the good word. That was the bad word that she sucks.
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that’s really important about, about the idea of firing her is that a lot of people want to talk about it in the context of like death of the author or whatever, where it’s just like, well, you know, “Harry Potter belongs to the readers” and it’s like, cool, that’s true.
But that really only like works or matters if I don’t know the author is dead for instance, or if someone else has bought the rights to the franchise. But if she’s still directly financially benefiting you just saying, you know, “JK Rowling, isn’t my author,” doesn’t actually do anything. You have to make it the only way under capitalism that we can make it clear to her that what she’s doing
isn’t okay with us is by affecting her paycheck. And like, people are like, “you’re never going to make her destitute.” I’m like, I’m not trying to make anyone destitute. Like, what are you talking about? The point is for her to be like, look, my royalties are going down. This is a receipt that she can look at and be like, this is directly timeline linked to when I said the transphobic stuff, (Talia hmmms in understanding) people are upset in a way that is visible that I can look at when I look at my bank account, I’m not saying like, I want her to get like evicted from her fucking castle and like live on the streets. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, maybe the castle part, but like, (Jessie laughs) I don’t want anyone houseless. Right. My goal is just for her to know in a tangible way that what she’s doing isn’t okay. And unfortunately tweeting at her doesn’t that doesn’t do anything. We live in a capitalist society. And that means that we have to do this by saying I’m not spending any money that’s going to go into your pocket.
Talia Franks: Mhmm (Talia sighs heavily) Yeah. I definitely definitely agree with all that. And I appreciate you taking the time to share that with my listeners.
Now for a fun closing activity I would like you to tell me your favorite head canons from the fandoms of your podcasts. Particularly ones that may have been spun by fanfiction, or just by riffing off talking with each other on your podcasts or with other people in fandom.
Just because I wanted to talk about a fun thing. If they’re queer all the better
Jessie Blount: I mean, I definitely think the reading of which, which of the main characters are queer, I think is definitely, at least for me been heavily influenced by fan-fiction and also some of the text, cause I’m like Harry/Ginny big, big bi energy. You can’t, you can’t tell me
Talia Franks: Mhmm
Jessie Blount: otherwise. Also biracial Harry. It’s a thing that I definitely started seeing in fan art, a couple of years ago.
And I’m just like, yes, great. Like let’s head canon James is like, you know, Indian slash south Asian. Like that sounds great. Give it, pour it just directly into my veins. And I mean, of course, like fandom 110% attaching themselves to Sirius and Remus as a couple, like basically immediately which is basically canon, but also so many fanfics and you’re just like, well, yeah, duh. (Talia and Lark laugh) W what else worked besides exes?
Lark Malakai Grey: Reluctant exes.
Jessie Blount: Yeah. I mean, true, the prison industrial complex got in the middle of that
Lark Malakai Grey: Exactly
Jessie Blount: Uh RIP. And just, I mean, and I know at least for me, just in general, the,
all the like background stuff that isn’t ever addressed, is kind of like, I feel like so many fanfictions have just have filled in like the blanks about like the other businesses, like how the like, economy actually works. Like, you know, how fucked up Dumbledore’s manipulation of Harry is. So
I’m trying to think of any like really out there ones, but I think I’m, it’s too late in the day. I’m sorry. Brain’s not quite quite working.
Talia Franks: It’s it’s all good. I, I completely agree on the WolfStar by the way. I, I love WolfStar. Although I, I say I love WolfStar, but I actually wrote a fic where James, Lily, and Sirius were a throuple.
So there was no WolfStar in that fic,
Jessie Blount: That also works.
Lark Malakai Grey: It does.
Talia Franks: Yeah, that’s the, that’s the only reading in which I will not accept WolfStar.
Lark Malakai Grey: I saw w I don’t remember something that I. That I posted on Instagram, like a WolfStar thing, someone commented and was like, oh my God, how did you think of this? And I was like, I like what?
I thought this was universally understood? (Lark starts laughing while speaking) I don’t understand. Like they have their own hashtag, what are you talking about?
I, they were probably a child. I don’t know. It was really cute though.
Yeah, I mean, obviously our big one, our big like podcast one is trans Hagrid.
Talia Franks: I love trans Hagrid.
Lark Malakai Grey: Me too. She’s lovely. I also really like, trans floor.
I really like anything where, so there’s an issue a lot in terms of, like trans identities in fantasy where it authors want to be able to sort of like correct the trans person’s body to align with their gender using magic, which sort of makes it like less identifiable for trans readers. I really love anything in fantasy where magic reinforces the gender of the trans person.
So something like a Veela, a trans woman Veela is really awesome to me because her Veela powers reinforce the reality of her being a woman. And it has nothing to do with like magic, having anything to do with her body. It’s like gender is innate and so Fleur is a veela.
Talia Franks: Mhmm
Lark Malakai Grey: Right? So I, I, that I’m like here for. Anything.
Give me trans sirens, trans like. Anything where there’s like, oh, like with Haggard and the unicorns too, right? It’s like Hagrid can hang out with unicorns. Unicorns only hang out with women. Hagrid is a woman. This is a basic philosophical argument layout, like logic 1 0 1. So I’m really into that. I also, Jessie, and I’ve never talked about it on the podcast.
I see a lot of people talking about how both Ron and Ginny are trans and how Molly resents Ron, because he was supposed to be her girl and then wasn’t, and then loves Ginny because she thought that she had another boy and then turned out to be actually a girl, which I think is super interesting.
Talia Franks: I love that.
Jessie Blount: And just kind of like
Lark Malakai Grey: Right? So complex
Jessie Blount: it’s and it’s like, it’s such a, like, it like enriches your perception of like. Ron’s feelings of inadequacy and Molly’s whole vibe with her kids. And even Ginny’s like, I don’t give a fuck attitude. And I think that’s kind of like, like when, like when those things enrich a sort of like one dimensional, boring reading, like this is clearly better, this is incredible.
Talia Franks: oh, I love them so much. I love that so much. I also it’s reminding me I have a particular I have a particular reading. I’ve read a FIC once that gave me a reading of Percy trans that I really love. And it was it was great. I also really I also usually read Blaise Zabini as trans I’ve wrote actually, I, I have a whole fanfic series about him on black girls create called The Houses of Zabini.
And yes, I love Blaise Zabini. He’s my favorite. And It’s funny. I read. So the whole reason, the whole reason it like sparked in my brain is because of that whole original controversy. Jessie, you probably know this about how—
Jessie Blount: I had, I had to live through it and I have never been more angry at a fandom than I have when all of the white fans were like, (The following is in a dramatic sing-song voice) Blaise is a Black man!? And it’s like, why does it matter? You guys, fuck you.
Talia Franks: Yeah, I know, I know you, you had to live through it, but the—
Lark Malakai Grey: I just need everyone to know that Jessie turned into the like hands on the face, emoji while saying that
Jessie Blount: that. It’s just like, I mean, just so much livejournal in fighting people saying the most racist shit.
Talia Franks: I didn’t integrate myself into that as much. I was actually I never went on livejournal very much. I went there. I was like, this place is a little bit scary. I’m going to go somewhere else. It was like too intense for me. Also, like I said, I was hiding fanfiction from my mom and I didn’t have my own computer because I like I had like a desktop computer that I that I had in my room, but my mom stole, she didn’t steal, it was hers. Anyway. I had a wifi stick. That was how I had the internet was I stuck a USB stick into my computer and that’s how I got the internet, (Talia laughs) because that was how I connected my desktop to the wifi.
Lark Malakai Grey: Gen Z is Googling this as they listen. They’re like, oh fucking what
Jessie Blount: Listen I used to have to in high school, plug my computer with the like cat five cord to like, look at look at Harry Potter fanfiction on livejournal.
Talia Franks: I didn’t have I didn’t have a private email account. My mom had my email account, so I had to make a and this is before I knew about Gmail.
So I think I made a Hotmail at one point. But anyway, the point is I had, I didn’t really know how to make my own email address. For awhile. And so I like could only interact by and I could only read fanfic if I remember the URL in my head. Or sometimes I would print stuff out and like hide it in the bottom of my underwear drawer.
It was like all very clandestine. I hope my mom does. My mom promised me she doesn’t listen to these podcasts, but (All laughing)
Lark Malakai Grey: that’s okay. You’re an adult now.
Talia Franks: But yeah, so that was that was a time. And also my brain forgot the beginning of this again.
Jessie Blount: We were talking about uh Blaise trans
Talia Franks: oh yeah. We were talking about trans Blaise. Yeah, so I love trans Blaise, yeah, trans Blaise gives me, warm and warm and fuzzies.
Jessie Blount: We also, so our the Quibbler, Queerbler, Queerbler is on our Patreon, except for the, a couple of times when we’ve released stuff for like our main feed. But we,
Talia Franks: yeah, I actually became a patron yesterday.
Lark Malakai Grey: Thank you.
Jessie Blount: Yes excellent, but I was going to say we have some stories with Percy and his girlfriend Penelope Clearwater, who we were just like she’s trans,
Lark Malakai Grey: Yep
Jessie Blount: and they’re in a very kinky relationship.
This is great. Cause Percy’s obviously a bottom.
Talia Franks: Yeah, I actually, in one of my fanfics Percy and Oliver and Penelope are in a throuple. Well, not yet. They’re going to be. Throuple is endgame. They’re still figuring stuff out.
Lark Malakai Grey: Yeah, Penny Penny could absolutely handle two bottoms if they were both obedient enough. (Jessie and Talia laugh) She’s, she’s, I mean, I don’t know. I’ve like conflated Jessie’s fanfic Penny with book Penny at this point, but I’m like, she’s got this on lock.
Now that you’re a patron, you should actually go find Jessie’s Penelope Clearwater fanfic it will make you sweat and blush, even if you’re alone in your room. It’s very good. (Lark laughs)
Jessie Blount: I feel like maybe I should write some more of that for Pride. Cause it’s just like,
Talia Franks: I—
Lark Malakai Grey: When is this episode coming out?
Talia Franks: This, this is coming out in June, so that has my pride month episode.
Lark Malakai Grey: Cool. So that’s, there’s a good link in here. We will be rereleasing our rated. I say it’s rated R it might be rated X queer Harry Potter activity book in June. We do that for Pride. This is the second year. But made me think of it as that there is a coloring book page featuring Dom Penelope, Clearwater.
I believe she has a whip it’s
Talia Franks: Oh gods
Lark Malakai Grey: by Rachel, who is an incredible artist. Folks would definitely check it out. It’s a free PDF. Download it.
Talia Franks: Where can people find y’all on the Interwebs?
Lark Malakai Grey: You can listen to the Gayly Prophet and EsGAYpe From Reality, which is spelled E S G A Y P E From Reality everywhere that you listen to podcasts, you should be able to. Our website is hashtagruthless.com and our Patreon is patreon.com/thegaylyprophet, we’re on Instagram and Twitter at @thegaylyprophet.
We’re, we’ve been shadow banned on Instagram for like six months now. So like, if your listeners want to come follow us and help us get un-shadowbanned we would really appreciate that
Talia Franks: I’ve been following your shadowban. It’s so unfair. I’ve been trying to like, like, and comment when I see it, but I don’t see it because we’re shadowowbanned it’s a catch-22
Jessie Blount: yeah. And an endless, just frustration.
Lark Malakai Grey: I, you can follow me at @larkmalakai on Instagram.
Jessie Blount: And you can follow me to Instagram at @livefromdetroit or on Twitter at @jessie_detroit.
Talia Franks: Great. Thank you so much again for joining me. This has been so fun. It was great, thanks for having us.
You’re welcome, I’m so excited to have gotten the chance to have y’all on here.
Jessie Blount: Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for having us on. I would, I would love to come back and talk about fanfiction again.
Talia Franks: Oh yeah, definitely. I, I will talk about fanfiction at literally any point.
You’ve been listening to Into the Archives, a fanfiction podcast from Talia Franks. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at @ArchivesPod. Join the party, send me your favorite fanfics and fanfiction memes. You can also send us an email at [email protected] or visit our website intothearchivespod.com. And if you’re sick of me pretending I’m not just the one person behind this podcast, you can find me, Talia Franks, at @talia_franks on Twitter and Instagram. I’d also love to have your support on Patreon, where you can find me at patreon.com/taliafranks and find Into the Archives related perks and more. Have a good night, and try not to stay up too late reading fanfic. Do as I say, not as I do.